Comments on: excerpt from “letter from birmingham jail” http://2mites.com/2010/01/18/excerpt-from-letter-from-a-birmingham-jail/ spending it all, because He is our treasure Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:49:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Derek Taylor http://2mites.com/2010/01/18/excerpt-from-letter-from-a-birmingham-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-427 Derek Taylor Tue, 19 Jan 2010 19:03:21 +0000 http://2mites.com/?p=584#comment-427 Jeff, There is much to consider here and I am very challenged as I study I Peter. One thing that I think can be said of MLK is that even when he did disobey, there was a sense in which he did respect and "honor the king". This had to have been an incredibly delicate balancing act and is part of why we still study and discuss his actions and life. I am quite certain that MLK himself would admit that his own actions may not have always lined up with the ideals he believed in. I don't know how committed MLK was to the gospel, though I don't question his commitment to some of the implications of the Gospel. Is it fair to say that his legacy is a little more complex than we usually admit? I believe we can honor him at the same time that we also acknowledge this. It is also helpful to remember that Malcolm X and his many followers disdained MLK's approach because he sought to redress grievances without malice and vengeance and he routinely reminded his listeners that love should guide our actions and the content of our character is of utmost importance. This discussion also reminds me that Dietrich Bonhoeffer believed in pacifism until he witnessed the unmasked evil of Nazism. Perhaps MLK is correct when he says that at some point, we all reach a breaking point where the pursuit of justice leads us to disobey or even to resort to force, provided that innocent lives hang in the balance. Abraham recruited 318 men for military purposes when tyrants took advantage of women and children. When Phaoroh commanded the death of Jewish babies, the midwives lied to protect the children and their parents. In both cases, I believe God was honored. I realize other people come to different conclusions on these passages, but that is a discussion for another day. Derek Jeff,
There is much to consider here and I am very challenged as I study I Peter. One thing that I think can be said of MLK is that even when he did disobey, there was a sense in which he did respect and “honor the king”. This had to have been an incredibly delicate balancing act and is part of why we still study and discuss his actions and life. I am quite certain that MLK himself would admit that his own actions may not have always lined up with the ideals he believed in. I don’t know how committed MLK was to the gospel, though I don’t question his commitment to some of the implications of the Gospel. Is it fair to say that his legacy is a little more complex than we usually admit? I believe we can honor him at the same time that we also acknowledge this. It is also helpful to remember that Malcolm X and his many followers disdained MLK’s approach because he sought to redress grievances without malice and vengeance and he routinely reminded his listeners that love should guide our actions and the content of our character is of utmost importance.
This discussion also reminds me that Dietrich Bonhoeffer believed in pacifism until he witnessed the unmasked evil of Nazism. Perhaps MLK is correct when he says that at some point, we all reach a breaking point where the pursuit of justice leads us to disobey or even to resort to force, provided that innocent lives hang in the balance. Abraham recruited 318 men for military purposes when tyrants took advantage of women and children. When Phaoroh commanded the death of Jewish babies, the midwives lied to protect the children and their parents. In both cases, I believe God was honored. I realize other people come to different conclusions on these passages, but that is a discussion for another day.

Derek

]]> By: admin http://2mites.com/2010/01/18/excerpt-from-letter-from-a-birmingham-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-426 admin Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:42:20 +0000 http://2mites.com/?p=584#comment-426 Derek, Thank you for your continued interaction on this blog, I really am enjoying it. I was not intending to advocate MLK's position concerning the breaking of laws. I was even thinking of leaving the last few sentences of the the excerpt out. I was merely trying to help us see the world the way it was when in the days of King, so that we could thank God together for the changes He has wrought in this land, concerning this issue. At the same time, it is important to see King as He really is. We miss out on a lot of learning when we only lift up the clearly honorable attributes of our heros, making them to be someone who they were not. While I agree with you on your assessment of 1 Peter 2 (see this earlier post on 1 Peter 2:17, http://2mites.com/2008/11/05/fear-god-honor-the-king/ ), and other similar passages, I am conflicted when I read this letter. I firmly believe, at this point, that to break laws in peaceful protest in such a scenario as this, is to fall short of what God requires of us. Yet, my heart aches, and I am tempted to ask myself, "At what point are we to say with Peter in Acts 5, "We are to obey God rather than men."" Yet, I already hold a conviction on this, and I believe we are only to disobey the government when we are asked to violate a direct command of God, as is the case in Acts 5. So I left the sentences in, and I sit in the struggle. I want to be assured of my conviction and search the scriptures well, and scenarios like this force me to do so. Here is Martin Luther King. I'm so thankful that God used him to stem the tide of segregation. And here is where our mutual belief is put to the test, that it is sin to protest any laws by disobeying them - outside of a direct command from God. Are we o.k. with being that white Texas brother in paragraph one, saying, "Wait!" Do we have the Scriptures standing in our corner? I want to be assured, and it is always best to test your conviction in the slipperiest of scenarios. challenged, Jeff Derek,

Thank you for your continued interaction on this blog, I really am enjoying it.

I was not intending to advocate MLK’s position concerning the breaking of laws. I was even thinking of leaving the last few sentences of the the excerpt out. I was merely trying to help us see the world the way it was when in the days of King, so that we could thank God together for the changes He has wrought in this land, concerning this issue. At the same time, it is important to see King as He really is. We miss out on a lot of learning when we only lift up the clearly honorable attributes of our heros, making them to be someone who they were not.

While I agree with you on your assessment of 1 Peter 2 (see this earlier post on 1 Peter 2:17, http://2mites.com/2008/11/05/fear-god-honor-the-king/ ), and other similar passages, I am conflicted when I read this letter. I firmly believe, at this point, that to break laws in peaceful protest in such a scenario as this, is to fall short of what God requires of us. Yet, my heart aches, and I am tempted to ask myself, “At what point are we to say with Peter in Acts 5, “We are to obey God rather than men.”" Yet, I already hold a conviction on this, and I believe we are only to disobey the government when we are asked to violate a direct command of God, as is the case in Acts 5.

So I left the sentences in, and I sit in the struggle. I want to be assured of my conviction and search the scriptures well, and scenarios like this force me to do so.

Here is Martin Luther King. I’m so thankful that God used him to stem the tide of segregation. And here is where our mutual belief is put to the test, that it is sin to protest any laws by disobeying them – outside of a direct command from God. Are we o.k. with being that white Texas brother in paragraph one, saying, “Wait!” Do we have the Scriptures standing in our corner? I want to be assured, and it is always best to test your conviction in the slipperiest of scenarios.

challenged,
Jeff

]]> By: Derek Taylor http://2mites.com/2010/01/18/excerpt-from-letter-from-a-birmingham-jail/comment-page-1/#comment-424 Derek Taylor Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:23:37 +0000 http://2mites.com/?p=584#comment-424 Jeff, What is the theological framework for determining to disobey authority? I certainly understand and sympathize with the desire to rebel against unjust laws, especially when minorities are being oppressed or say, when babies are being aborted by the millions. The I'm curious about this in part because our church is currently studying I Peter and I don't know if I can harmonize what MLK is saying with I Peter 2, in particular. I believe MLK was on the right side of history in many regards, especially when he taught his listeners to love their enemies. This was an incredibly powerful and courageous call. However, I read his letter here and wonder if he would have written this after studying and meditating on I Peter 2. Curious for your thoughts. Derek Jeff,
What is the theological framework for determining to disobey authority? I certainly understand and sympathize with the desire to rebel against unjust laws, especially when minorities are being oppressed or say, when babies are being aborted by the millions. The I’m curious about this in part because our church is currently studying I Peter and I don’t know if I can harmonize what MLK is saying with I Peter 2, in particular. I believe MLK was on the right side of history in many regards, especially when he taught his listeners to love their enemies. This was an incredibly powerful and courageous call. However, I read his letter here and wonder if he would have written this after studying and meditating on I Peter 2. Curious for your thoughts.

Derek

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