The following is a short clip of Paul Washer at a revival conference in Atlanta Georgia this past week. He gives, what in many ways would be defined in the New Testament as a prophetic word. I have listened to a few Paul Washer’s sermons before, and by my judgment (according to what I have previously heard) he is generally very biblical and sound in doctrine (reformed). I encourage you to take 5 minutes and view this clip, and then post a comment, answering these two questions:
1. Is it a true prophecy or a false prophecy, and how do we know?
2. What should be our response to this message?
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7UyZYpeReY&hl=en&fs=1]
I have a few comments of my own, but I will save them for a follow up post. I’m interested in hearing what you have to say. I would also encourage you to write about this on your own blogs and interact with this issue/prophecy.
Well firstly I do not see this as a prophetic word. It is more or less him speaking directly to America what the Bible prophesied would happen to the church – that we would be persecuted and hated by the world around us (Matt 24:9-10, Mark 13:9-13, Luke 21:12-19), so I would say he is telling the truth based on the teaching of the Word.
Our response to this message is simple – begin to seek the Lord through prayer, the time-consuming study of the Word and fellowship with others of like, precious faith. Time is short – we should make the most of it
Douglas, I think I disagree. Your point is well taken (that all Christians will undergo persecution), but I do think this clip still represents a prophecy, either true or false.
Aren’t some of the details of Paul Washer’s prediction not necessitated by Scripture? He seems to be saying that this severe persecution (cars and homes taken) will happen in our lifetime. While some of the Scriptures you reference tell us that persecution is inevitable for any Christian, not all Christians will undergo a persecution of the nature and sort that Paul Washer describes in this clip. So in some sense, this does seem to be a prophecy.
Thanks Jeff. But if you look at persecutions throughout history, one of the things which always happened was that property belonging to Christians was seized. Mr. Washer has a good grasp of church history so maybe he is merely looking at the pattern he has seen in church history
i think i agree partially with you both. douglas, i see your point, and i tend to agree with you that washer is speaking more from a general awareness of the culture and the bible about what he thinks is going to happen to america, and jeff, i agree that the certainty with which he mentions some of these events (especially at the end) seems pretty prophetic. he does, however, give a couple of disclaimers which i think make it more a “word from the heart of a preacher” rather than a “word from the Lord.” he says “apart from a Great Awakening, these things will come upon you.”
as for the content of what he said, i think he is right about many of these things. odds and statistics are on his side as to the probability of the american church eventually undergoing persecution, however, of the nature which he mentioned (i.e. being prosecuted as child molestors, and as stupid people who have nothing to contribute to society) i cannot be sure. it’s often said that america is fifty years behind europe in the way in which it deals with Christianity. if that is so, we’ve yet to see either the kind of persecution, or the great Awakening which mr. washer mentions in this video clip. we are, however, seeing both on the continents of Asia and Africa right now, although under VERY different circumstances.
i also notice a heavy influence of the fundamentalist/modernist church mindset, which, although resolutely Jesus lovers and Bible believers, sees itself being pushed to the margins not just of the culture at large, but even the church culture with the rise of the seeker/emergent/generous orthodoxy movement. this, i think, may explain some of the more fatalistic language which washer uses.
overall, i think his views are heavily influenced by his eschatology (and rightfully so), whatever that is, and that if we were given a little more context as to the situation of his comments, we would be better equipped to gauge the merit of them.
very thought-provoking post jeff, thanks and keep up the good work.
I think you have some good insight on this Trevor. Again, the only thing I might take issue with is your hesitancy in labeling this prophecy. Prophecy is to be judged differently than an opinion or a feeling, therefore it is important to recognize prophecy when it occurs, so we can judge it accordingly as true or false prophecy.
You say:
“he does, however, give a couple of disclaimers which i think make it more a “word from the heart of a preacher” rather than a “word from the Lord.” he says “apart from a Great Awakening, these things will come upon you.””
Don’t the prophecies we read in Bible often have “if” type clauses? Like, “Unless you repent”, or “if you return to the LORD your God”. Even the new testament prophecy given by Agabus to the apostle Paul in the book of Acts is a prediction of what would happen to Paul IF he continues on to Jerusalem. I agree that Paul Washer does indeed seem reticent himself in calling his word prophecy, however, he speaks with authority the things that WILL happen to America unless there is a Great Awakening. He is prophesying that if a Great Awakening does not come soon, then persecution is on the near horizon…
I will concede that this particular case isn’t so clear cut because the person speaking does not say, “Thus says the LORD”. However, I would still categorize it as prophecy.
Thanks for the post, these are some very powerful words from Mr. Washer.
I response to your first question, I would consider this prophecy.
“Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.” 1 Corinthians 14:29
“Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good,” 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21.
Judging prophecy is the role of the body. We should accept some and we should reject some. Surely those with more wisdom and insight (or even the gift of discerning spirits) would be more qualified. But nonetheless, based on what I have seen in contemporary culture and church history, I regard this as a warning and caution. I encourage us to live in light of what Mr. Washer saying.
Also something to note, he speaks very specifically about what he sees will happen. This kind of pattern can be seen in Scripture but not this exact prescription of judgment and persecution. The only alternative to this happening is if there is repentance and revival.
I find it very interesting that Mr. Washer brings up the point about God raising up young men because I am currently writing a paper about the resurgence of reformed (Calvinistic) doctrine among young men in the church. I propose in my paper that is in reaction to the foggy quicksand of Emergent theology, maybe there are far greater macro purposes.
He brought up another point that I shared with my family, I have considered for some time the great defenders of the faith often stood in opposition to the Christian establishment, John Bunyan, Martin Luther, Marie Durand. What has always struck me was their reliance on the word of God. They had nothing else to go on. They couldn’t even rely on the Christian community. They lived their lives based on what the Scriptures taught. We live in a time where we are not always at an injunction to do what is right. That is, most of the time doing what is right is culturally acceptable. But as time goes on, those who follow Jesus will be seen as intolerant.
Another point is that in my mind and in my own private thinking, I am way more radical than I let on to be. Whether it’s good or bad, I can live out my convictions with minimal opposition. But again, I sense the time is coming in which that won’t be possible.
My wife brought up the point that this should push us to read our Bibles more. There are saints all over the world that cannot even read the Scriptures because of the ban on Bibles on their imprisonment. We should cherish the gift of being able to read the Bible.
Hi
I would just like to make a few comments. I think it is hard to class this word as ‘prophecy’ as it is colored and influenced by his particular interpretation of eschatology. It was more a presentation of a personal viewpoint, more like a sermon.
However there is an aspect of this word that resonates with reality. We are seeing an increase in the persecution of Christians in different parts of the world, and even in the west people are sometimes discriminated against because of their beliefs.
I am not sure that I agree with Mr Walsh that an awakening would necessarily prevent its acceleration, as we have got various skeletons in the cupboard. Perhaps sometimes unfairly the church is often rembered for its failings on issues of human rights. In the minds of many who would class themselves as free thinkers, we have not sufficiently distanced ourselves from the past, and there are still sectors of the church that do not respect free speech or the right of people to think differently. The Christian faith should not be advanced by means of coercion and bigotry and we need to be seen to have learned these lessons from the past.
I did have problems with some of the generalization. Not all children who go to public schools reject the faith and I am not sure that we should see a downturn in events as an inevitability.
Without taking it to extreme, I think there is some truth in the idea that we get what we expect. Whatever happened to a positive mindset, and the prayer of faith? Surely we can pray against persecution, clean up our act and expect positive things from God in the future.
Hope this provides some food for thought
Francis K Longworth
I would call this a prediction rather than a prophecy. The major difference isw that a prophecy is specifically prefaced with a “Thus saith the Lord,” or (for those who no longer speak in Elizabethian English) “This is what I sense the Lord saying to us.” This is a major characteristic both of Old Testament prophecy and of modern charismatic prophecy. The issue is what authority you claim for your word – a personal authority based on your reading of scripture and understanding of the times, or a divine authority based on direct revelation from God Himself. The sense I get from this clip is the first, he is making a prediction based on where he sees the culture heading.
Personally I find this prediction difficult to swallow. It seems reactionary and fear-based. Nevertheless, you can never go wrong in calling the people of God to pray for another awakening or to be prepared to lay down their lives.
I will try to blog more on prophecy this week on my blog at rtjones.wordpress.com. Thanks for the interesting post.
i think what rt says is exactly right. if we are to label this as “prophecy” then we need to either 1) accept his words as a word from God, or 2) debunk this as false prophecy.
to be honest with you, if we want to call this prophecy, then my understanding of our current American culture would lead me to believe that mr. washer is wrong about what he sees happening in the very near future.
on the other hand, if i receive this as an instructive word from the heart of a pastor/theologian, then i can receive much of what he said in a spirit of caution and thankfulness for the blessings i have (such as Scripture and freedom from persecution as Matthew said.)
i do understand that the merit or “goodness” of my response doesn’t define what this word from washer is, i’m just explaining what i would do with these two options.
if you want to label this word as prophetic, then will you treat him the same way as pat robertson who prophecied typhoons, hurricanes, and even a meteor on disneyworld for hosting a gay-pride day? is it the same or is this different because the guy is more sound? i’m curious as to how we should deal with this word if it does turn out to be incorrect….
Greeting,
I saw your post on the Young Calvinists blog.
It actually is a safe prediction and has nothing to do with being a soccer mom or dad. Jesus told us we will be persecuted as he was persecuted. No matter the level of obedience we can claim we face this. In fact the more one tries to live according to God’s will the more persecution he or she will face. We are to pick up the cross Jesus gives us, not hand pick one ourselves, and follow him and die.
God’s peace. †
what is the context for this video? Where did it come from? When was it filmed?
I hear people saying things like this on Yahoo Answers, and it leaves me slightly flabbergasted. Do American evangelicals think they are living in the latter half of the first century, with a reasonable expectation of being crucified sometime soon? Or am I mistaken in thinking this is the twenty first century, and so far as I am aware nobody in the western world has lost their life, been imprisoned or even been deposed from office, because they were christian, in living memory.
Thanks Jeff for posting this. Washer’s message is very thought provoking.
It seems that one of the key things to look at is whether Washer seems to believe that God is speaking through him. The Bible tells us to “judge” him. Our judgment will look very different if he intends us to hear this as a word from the LORD–especially if he turns out to be wrong.
It is clear from the video that Washer believes that it is the truth; that persecution will happen in America. (And Leslie, just looking at church/biblical history you can predict as much. Whenever God’s people have grown fat, happy, idolatrous and worldly He has sent judgment.) However, if Washer turns out to be wrong I would not immediately label him as a heretic. He seems to have a tendency to state things strongly in order to get them across and make people think. He says “This will happen….” rather than “I believe we will see….” because he believes clearly it will happen and that people will heed him more if he states it strongly.
Bottom line: washer puts us who are to judge in a hard place, because of the fact that he doesn’t give a clear source of the message. He doesn’t say whether this is from his analysis or directly from the Holy Spirit. We shall test the prophecy as the Jews are commanded in the OT; does what he has predicted come to pass? But we must still hold it as a warning. Just looking at history anyone can predict that persecution is likely to come in America. We should take warning from this word and, whatever he intended, we should search the warnings that God has given in the Scriptures to those who are complacent and idolatrous.